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Re: 2020 Playoffs

By kicker10bog
5/07/2018 9:07 am
Infinity on Trial wrote:

Literally, if there were any other alternative ... in the meantime, keep telling yourselves whatever you need to justify the QB rotation. A reckoning is coming, just not in time for next season.


Oh, I'll be fine. I have good QBs in all my leagues now. And, as said before, I'll be glad when the issue is gone. It's an unrealistic way to play for 99% of teams.

Re: 2020 Playoffs

By GrandadB - League Admin
5/07/2018 2:19 pm
Good grief! lol, this is just a game isnt it? Doesnt bother me a bit whether or not subbing for the QB1 is an advantage or not, it doesnt always produce better results, and as the game changes, you change with it, NBD.

Re: 2020 Playoffs

By GrandadB - League Admin
5/07/2018 2:33 pm
Infinity on Trial wrote:
kicker10bog wrote:
Infinity on Trial wrote:
GrandadB wrote:
Or, you can play the game the way it is, and if bringing in the QB2 to offset fatigue, so be it.


I wonder why I bother playing a game when this is "the way it is." I'll be happy when you have to find another way.


Because you can only play it is "the way it is," right? There is no other way to play it. You can enjoy it the way it is and still suggest improvements. I will be glad when I can use my top QB all game without such a big falloff in play.


Literally, if there were any other alternative ... in the meantime, keep telling yourselves whatever you need to justify the QB rotation. A reckoning is coming, just not in time for next season.


QB rotation or substitution does not need to be justified nor denigrated, and sometimes it does not provide an advantage over not subbing for the starter. It can backfire if the sub has a real bad game. There are many big differences btw this game & RL NFL... like team owners are not also the head coach and selecting the plays or gameplanning. This is not RL NFL, this is MFN, it is a reflection of the real game.
Last edited at 5/07/2018 2:35 pm

Re: 2020 Playoffs

By eyeballll
5/07/2018 3:56 pm
kicker10bog wrote:
gg eyeball

The difference this game was sacks, and my oline played way below the level they played at all regular season. I shouldn't have lowered the running game in my gameplan either.


Good game, Kicker... Yeah, I got more pressure than I was expecting, that's for sure! It was a very close game, statistically. I was able to finish up a few drives, while you stalled at the wrong time more than once... Our teams are very well matched, if we played 10 games it would be 5-5 I think... I just got lucky this time... and I've earned the right to lose to CraRa!

Re: 2020 Playoffs

By Infinity on Trial
5/07/2018 4:07 pm
GrandadB wrote:
QB rotation or substitution does not need to be justified.


That's something people say when they can't justify something. Exploiting an AI problem gives you an advantage, whether your backup performs well or not, and is in no way comparable to team owners crafting a gameplan.

I'm not advocating for things to resemble real life, but there are actual examples of owners taking on duties of a head coach (Paul Brown and Al Davis come to mind). That's a deflection of the problem, which is you are exploiting bad AI rather than, as you have praised in other threads, winning through superior strategy and the talent you can assemble.

The explosion of private leagues happened largely because people got tired of bad trades creating problematic imbalances in talent. Most players see that as a problem, and yet, as you say, everyone is playing by the same rules. Anyone who intentionally takes advantage of the QB rotation to gain an advantage deserves the same respect as someone who routinely fleeces nubes for all their first-round picks.

Re: 2020 Playoffs

By kicker10bog
5/07/2018 4:18 pm
Do you feel the same way about constantly blitzing?

For me, both are problems with the game. Constantly blitzing is the easiest way to have a good defense. You still need good players, but blitzing helps a lot more in MFN than it does in the NFL. This is also one reason the QB rotation is so effective. The incessant blitzing causes the QBs to run more, thus tiring them out and causing there quality of play to drop.

Re: 2020 Playoffs

By Infinity on Trial
5/07/2018 4:25 pm
kicker10bog wrote:
Do you feel the same way about constantly blitzing?

For me, both are problems with the game. Constantly blitzing is the easiest way to have a good defense. You still need good players, but blitzing helps a lot more in MFN than it does in the NFL. This is also one reason the QB rotation is so effective. The incessant blitzing causes the QBs to run more, thus tiring them out and causing there quality of play to drop.


I think that's a reasonable complaint. I'm the kind of coach who loves the blitz all the time anyway. I love what the Bears did in 85, and the teams that were influenced by it. I grew up watching Derrick Thomas terrorize QBs every down. Even in today's NFL, you see 3-4 teams sending 5 guys on a regular basis. The Chiefs under Sutton have played *****-to-the-wall at times. The difference from this game, of course, is they often pay for it (especially with terrible DBs on the field).

QBs in this game need to be able to get rid of the ball better, and zone coverage is entirely broken. To me, it's a different set of circumstances than using a backup QB to take advantage of screwy fatigue effects, but reasonable minds could disagree. Again, the obvious fix would be to remove or lessen the fatigue penalty on QBs. The actual fix won't be ideal, but it should put a stop to the rotations.

Re: 2020 Playoffs

By kicker10bog
5/07/2018 4:36 pm
I don't think the circumstances are that different, really. Both are a product of the game in its current state, which needs improvement. That's really the circumstances. I understand you view it differently, and I can respect that opinion.

Re: 2020 Playoffs

By eyeballll
5/07/2018 4:42 pm
My 2 bits... I don't, and won't, use 2 quarterbacks, and I don't think you have to use 2 to win. I've won share of games and championships with 1 QB, and I never actually been tempted to change. And I'm always slightly, just slightly, irritated when I see a team using 'the rotation', because it's not the normal way football is played.

To me, it's not so much an exploit issue as it is a realism issue. Show me a league, professional/college/high school, that routinely uses a 2 QB system. This is football simulation. I'm glad it's being addressed, if only as a cosmetic thing...

As far as blitzing goes, blitzing works. I think the problem is that the other plays and styles don't work, like zone for example. In a perfect world (simulator) I should be able play different defenses and succeed. And I should be able to adjust my offense to beat my opponent's defense... That's football, baby! I know M2M and zone are being addressed, hopefully it will make more plays work...

I love this game, it's by far the best simulator I've played my 30 years of sims... My next fave was FBPro96.

Re: 2020 Playoffs

By Infinity on Trial
5/07/2018 4:49 pm
eyeballll wrote:
My next fave was FBPro96.


I miss the FBPro series. I wasted a lot of time playing 98, up until my most recent computer upgrade. Now I get an error when I try to sim the games.