Rochester Americans sends:
Justin Hulbert (QB)
Micheal Horvath (RG)
Bruce Suttle (FS)

Natchitoches Snappers sends:
Robert Gilliam (CB)


(This is an automated message. If you believe this trade warrants additional investigation, please contact the league admin.)

Not a good trade for the Snappers, I dont like seeing players with less than 1 year experience making trades to League Champion level teams that are as obvious as this one. Might have to make another rule for this league.

I am happy to provide additional depth of discussion to the context about the trade that was made.

The Snappers were managed by the artificial intelligence engine the past three seasons. Prior to this trade, they had two quarterbacks on their roster.

One QB is an aging 14 year veteran with a Pass Accuracy Rating of 66 (unplayable), more career interceptions than touchdowns, and a career QB Rating of 69 (awful).

The other QB is an aging 13 year veteran with an Intelligence Rating of 39 leading to terrible QB decision making, more career interceptions than touchdowns, and a career QB rating of 73 (awful).

The Snappers received arguably the best QB in the league at age 30 with a strong likelihood of six productive seasons ahead. Player attributes for this QB include Intelligence Rating of 86, Discipline Rating of 99, Pass Accuracy Rating of 100, Arm Strength Rating of 80, Look Off Defense Rating of 93, Field of Vision Rating of 100, and Avoid Fumble Rating of 100. Statistics for this QB for the past 4 seasons are as follows (league leader in yards passing and touchdowns for all 4 seasons):

2053 season: 4,926 yards passing, 36 touchdowns, 92 QB Rating
2054 season: 5,849 yards passing, 52 touchdowns, 97 QB rating
2055 season: 6,117 yards passing, 54 touchdowns, 97 QB rating
2056 season: 4,850 yards passing, 44 touchdowns, 95 QB rating

This QB gives the Snappers an opportunity at an immediate competitive rebuild, particularly when one considers that there were no real QB prospects in the recently completed rookie draft and that there are only a total of four free agent QB's with a Pass Accuracy Rating greater than 80.

The Snappers also received a 28 year old offensive lineman with a strong likelihood of five productive seasons ahead. This offensive lineman has the rare combination of Speed (66), Strength (97), and Run Blocking (98 / 100) where he can be utilized as the primary zone blocker and/or pulling guard on running plays. This lineman has a career Tackles Allowed percentage under 6%, placing him in the top 20% of all linemen in that category. While not possessing a particularly strong Pass Blocking rating, this lineman has only 2 career Sacks Allowed over 329 pass blocking opportunities.

The Snappers also received a talented 25 year old multi-position player with a strong likelihood of six productive seasons ahead who could be used at SS, FS, or WLB with a speed Rating of 77, Acceleration Rating of 88, Discipline Rating of 98, Tackle Ability Rating of 71, Run Defense rating of 88, and M2M Coverage rating of 90. This player would be a starter on about one-third of teams in the EFL, an excellent Special Teams Gunner on all teams, and otherwise would be a first rate depth player (always important for rebuilding teams).

The Americans received just one player in return in the trade, a top notch CB at age 25 with a strong likelihood of six productive seasons ahead. Attributes include Speed Rating of 84, Strength Rating of 48, B&R Coverage Rating of 88, M2M Coverage Rating of 92, and Zone Coverage Rating of 91.

The Snappers received a total of 1,625 "Trade Score" points. The Americans received 520 fewer with a total of 1,105 "Trade Score" points. While some question the validity of the "Trade Score" points in assessing trades, it has been shown to be a useful measure when all players involved in a trade have the same number of years remaining in their careers as is true in this trade. More importantly, because of the high quality QB that the Snappers received, they have a chance to immediately be competitive which would not otherwise be possible given the dearth of quality at the QB position in the Rookie Draft and the Free Agent market.

Sorry, but the explanation above does not cut it. I hope that is was not used to convince an owner with much less experience to go for the deal. Trade meter value means nothing. The QB position is dependent on the rest of the offense, especially the receiving group. The QB being traded to the Snappers will not come near the stat performance that he had with the Americans. Ive got Hulbert rated 87, one point less than his default of 88. You want an example of a high rated QBs with low season QBR? Herr/ Bulldogs is a good one and also on a PO level team, I have him rated 90! his QBR was 74.9 vs Hulberts 95.2 !! You are not doing the Eddie and the Snappers any favor trading Hulbert to them.

The OL? look at his pass block rating!! The FS? I can get a better one right now out of FA.

Defense is King in MFN, there are no favors being done for a losing team in this deal, it only makes their defense more vulnerable, and makes the league champion team stronger. QBs and RBs used to be drafted high if not first in the draft, but not any more, not by the owners who have the higher winning %.

In addition, there are 2 QBs in the FA pool that my weights have rated at 90 that would perform at same level as Hulbert if either were on the Americans.

GrandadB -

There was absolutely no intent on my part to purposely disadvantage a less experienced team owner in this trade. The subsequent analysis that I posted is exactly how I feel about the elements of the trade. I only shared the analysis publicly because you posted that you "...don't like seeing players with less than 1 year experience making trades to League Champion level teams that are as obvious as this one." Not obvious in the way that you think it is, in my opinion. You disagree, as is your prerogative.

Please feel free to reverse the trade if it does not meet the standards of the league. No problem.

Team owners in this league, and in all of the other MFN leagues in which I participate, will vouch for me as an honest broker in all interactions. If you feel the current situation is so egregious as to not be remediable, then I am willing to leave the league for the greater good. Let me know if you feel that is best.

It’s tough to govern trades. All I know is drastic changes never solve anything.Right now the system is ripe for error. Fixing it with what at our disposal should involve the lowest amount of effort.

I agree, now that Ive had more time to reflect on it, my intent is to educate and help more MFN players aware of what they are doing and not doing when it comes to trades. VF, you are a key component of the Elite League, my focus was on the trade value, not anything else, I know you to be a good and fair player. I spend a lot of time trying to help new players or those who have a hard time competing, so Im much more sensitive to what I consider an imbalanced trade, which is always open to debate. In this particular case, the season will prove the evaluation of the trade, which will be a positive learning experience for all.

It will take a lot for me to reverse a trade, and I dont like seeing someone either intentionally or unintentionally make a trade that is not in their best interest. I like to see the league as a whole get stronger and more competitive.

The only reason, at this point, that I would reverse the trade is if it was requested by the Snappers owner, who apparently is either not paying attention or does not care. And if that is the case, Ive got no time or interest in trying to help the individual. But, I do have an interest in educating the newer and lower winning % players about trading basics.

Have you ever played Monopoly, you're an hour or more invested into the game, and someone makes a deal like trading the last piece for the orange block for a couple of railroads or similar? And the person who gets the orange or purple group has several $500 bills in their stack, lol. Game over, thanks to a DA (dumb ***) deal. Guess Im too competitive.

Now that the season is over, lets have another look at this trade, and again, not for criticism or negativity, but for learning/knowledge.

QB Hulbert finished the season for the Snappers with a 76.45 QBR, 5 TDs and 7 Ints. The previous QB/starter for the Snappers is a real story. Garcia, was a 1.4 pick in the 2053 draft by the Snappers. His default rating is 88, my weights have him at 92. For all intents and purposes, he is an elite level QB, look at his card. He unexplainably was not resigned by the Snappers and went to FA, where he was signed by the Marauders for a whopping 300 million plus contract. Then, he was let go by the Marauders less than a few sims later in Late FA !!! He was then astutely picked up by the Talons for 1/5 the contract cost in Late FA2. What a shame that the Snappers ended up with this deal. Garcia had a nice season for the Talons, putting up an 87 QBR. However, Garcia was not on the Snapper roster at the time of this trade, but its still a pretty good story and very unfortunate for the Snappers.

Also, at the time of the trade, the Snappers had a QB that I have rated the same as Hulbert. Take a look for yourself, on the Snappers roster, Charles Aguilar, 100 PA/LO/FOV, 83 PR. whats wrong with that?? They did not need a QB.

The above is a good example of why its a good idea to keep your eye on what players are showing up in the FA pool. Who would have thought that even the Ai manager would let an elite QB go to FA??? Garcia is an elite level QB, finished top 5 in the league for QBR, and was scooped on a much lower contract for his worth, great value! I would have made an offer on him if I had seen it. Additionally, at the time of this trade, there were two FA QBs available that could have put up the same performance of Hulbert, who also had the benefit of playing on a championship team & with excellent receivers along with top notch play selection. Which accounts for his drop of over 10 QBR points after the trade, as expected.

OK, so back to the trade, Hulbert did OK, above a 70 QBR, good for 20th among starting QBs. The 2nd player in the trade, RG Horvath played one play for the Snappers. His default rating is 87, my weights have him much lower at 79. Dont know why he only got one play in, and he currently has not been placed in the depth chart, so basically he was a zero for the rest of the season.

FS Suttle (4 yr) did a very good job for the Snappers as a sub, with a 28.9% outstanding Catch Allwd. but zero picks. His default rating is 70, my rating is 74.

Gilliam (4 yr vet) is the starting CB2 for the Americans, had a 56 % CA and 4 picks. His rating and attributes make him an elite level CB. both default and my weights have him rated at 89.

In the end, its about player and position knowledge, not just ratings and attributes. In the current game version, you can get good performance out of average rated QBs, which is not the case for CBs, and the reason that the winning team managers value them higher. Examples of average rated QBs with top 20 performance this season... Wilson/Thunder, Ma/Bullfrogs, Elkins/Cougars, Silva/Toppers, and Reading/Falcons. You wont get a better offense trading for a better QB is the point, no better than what you can find from FA, and you definitely do not want to trade an elite, 4 yr vet CB away to a team that you are trying to catch up to, that has more wins than your team. You should never trade an elite DB away, unless he is nearing the 10 year exp level, although most try to pawn off their old starting high rated DBs at the 8 yr mark.

So, thats the current status of this trade. Who do you think did better? or even?